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2007/06/01
Google is now offering a much closer look at our world. Some folks are raising privacy concerns. As a card-carrying ACLU liberal, I'm supposed to be standing shoulder to shoulder with all my brethren in opposition to video surveillance, but I'm not.
I'm sorry. The ACLU will probably want their card back, but I just don't see this as a problem. My feeling is that if I am visible to random strangers, there's no additional loss of privacy because of cameras. If anything, I'm strongly in favor of cameras everywhere: it would help with crime.
At Is the solution for privacy openness? I said:
Sometimes I think that openness is the only final answer. If you don't have privacy anywhere, your privacy can't be abused. Your behavior might change: if you know that video cameras are watching you wherever you are, you won't be breaking littering laws. If every keystroke you type at your computer is available to the world, you aren't likely to be soliciting sex from minors.
If you are walking down a public street, I think it's reasonable to assume that you might be "on camera". I almost hate to say this, because I know it will incense my liberal peers, but if you aren't doing anything wrong, what's your problem with the camera? Other people already see you, and that might include people who know and recognize you. The camera just increases the potential.
There are parallels with Open Source here. Openness in code has obvious benefits; so does openness in the real world. Yet my bet is that the immediate reaction of most reading this will be to disagree. Right?
Spanish translation by Daniel Toker is at http://aplawrence.com/Opinion/google_street_spanish.html
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Fri Jun 1 13:18:22 2007: Subject: Niall
London is pretty saturated with state-controlled security cameras. Studies have shown that the only application that results in a drop in crime is when they're used in parking lots (vehicle theft), though most of the studies note that poor implementation might be to blame (eg. poor staffing of the monitors) for the poor impact.
I've seen documentaries with Bobbies frantically following people from camera to camera just because they're running for a bus. Hardly suspicious behavior.
As much as I personally don't like the idea, and don't believe they will do much to prevent crime, they are certainly helpful after the fact. Authorities in London used CCTV footage to help them find the perps involved in the botched 2005 attacks, as well as identify the suicide bombers for the earlier ones which sadly were not prevented.
Too much room for abuse, I say. In an ideal world where the watchers could be trusted to do the right thing and respect people I'm sure everything would be hunky-dory. I'm too much of a pessimist to believe we live in that world.
Fri Jun 1 14:13:57 2007: Subject: anonymous
Yes, when I went to London a few years back, there were cameras everywhere, and did not seem to bother me. In fact, I wish I could get some footage of my wife and I, closing down one of the pubs we visited the first night we were there. Watching us stumble home, laughing and having a great time would make for nice home video! At least, I think so.
As long as nobody is watching me in my home, I am pretty open to this idea. We should take what Londoners have learned from this experience, and see if it is worth it. For crime, it is a fantastic idea. I think the thing that scares people the most, is how "big brother" is watching you, and what other liberties are we willing to give up, in the name of security.
The parallel to open source is a good one. Especially when you apply the security principle to it. But would we be more secure? Are there ways to "crack" this behavior? i.e. some kind of cloaking device that would render the camera useless? Electromagnetic Pulses? Will this lead to another cat and mouse chase, like the radar detectors, versus the radar?
I still need more information, before I can say if this is going to be worth it or not, but being able to track down people who kidnap kids, or perform other crimes, certainly sounds like a great idea.
- Bruce
Fri Jun 1 14:26:40 2007: Subject: Niall
Funny you should mention "cracks":
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/privacy/blur-reflective-spray-makes-you-unphotographable-264797.php
Tue Jul 10 00:21:43 2007: Subject: anonymous
You should read The Light of Other Days
Sat Nov 10 23:29:32 2007: Subject: TonyLawrence
Spanish translation added today at
http://aplawrence.com/Opinion/google_street_spanish.html - thanks to Daniel Toker
Wed Feb 18 01:34:49 2009: Subject: google earth anonymous
hwo do you check out google earth withOUT downloading it? THXTHXTHX<<<<
Wed Feb 18 01:36:23 2009: Subject: anonymous
oh please "Niall'. If youre talking about what i THINK your talking about, you are an idiot/pervert. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< love, me
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Wed Mar 4 22:28:27 2009: Subject: street view anonymous
whats most amazing about street view is to think that if we have access to this kind of technology, just imagine what the government´s got.
privacy? you´re right, that doesnt exist anymore, and the worst is that it is violated mostly behind our backs
Wed Apr 8 17:54:50 2009: Subject: privacy concerns malcolm
What kind of idiot would want the world as well as any government to have access to all of your movements. Throughout history, we have seen situations where this kind of government spying can cause a problem. In response to the idiot who asked the question, "if your not doing anything wrong, what are you worried about?", Maybe he should read about people like Jesus Christ, Martin Luther King Jr., etc... These people weren't doing anything wrong, but they lost their lives because they were viewed as a threat to the power structure as well as the status quo. What happens when the United States Government decides we are a threat to the internal security of the country? What happens when any government sees us as a threat. What about people lobbying for the elimination of powerful drug cartels, or arms dealers, who happen to be flush with cash. I dont think i want these people to have all of my personal information, as well as my travel habits/daily routines at their finger tips. If anything, this makes us less secure. Since the original ratification of the United States Constitution, assholes have been trying to find ways to get around it, nullify it, and/or destroy it. Idiots like that guy who claims to be a card carrying member of the ACLU have assisted these assholes over the generations. Law enforcement is the other culprit. How far are we willing to let this go? The people who run and own google can afford the type of protections that the average guy cannot. This is not just a democracy, it is a democracy who's foundations are made up of freedoms and rights, period. maybe we should start a website that lists the personal addresses and phone numbers of police, judges, politicians, and the likes. After all, we deserve equal protection under the law. If our rights to privacy are going to be fucked, it should be open season on everybody. Why should someone elses rights be protected to a higher degree because they have a high profile job. Lets see how google feels when their children are abducted because some dick head wants to extort money from some wealthy assholes. This New World Order shit is way out of control!!!
Wed Apr 8 18:18:42 2009: Subject: TonyLawrence
Obviously you didn't read what I said or just didn't understand it.
Total openness actually is a solution. Not just where the Government can spy on you, but where you can "spy" right back. Google Street View is actually an encouraging move in that direction.
Wed Apr 8 18:40:22 2009: Subject: TonyLawrence
Amusingly enough, you actually said If our rights to privacy are going to be fucked, it should be open season on everybody.
Yes, that's exactly my point. It should be "open season". Police cameras scanning streets should be accessible to everyone and you should be able to see the people doing the scanning just as easily as they can see you.
The rest of your paranoia is just silly. What's visible in public is visible to anyone - cameras don't change that, they only extend the capability. If you don't want to extend the abilities of police, then we should take away their cars, their telephones, their computers.. those things give them more ability to observe society.
But - I knew when I wrote this that I'd get extreme reactions like that. I'm just surprised it took so long for someone to get so incensed.
Sun Apr 12 23:34:11 2009: Subject: anonymous
I believe this has it's up's and downs though good for crime I would have to agree with tom, what if our country one day starts going communist these cameras would hunt innocent people example like if there was a hater in power against jew's this would allow them to hunt them down and possibly hurt them this is why i dont agree with the invading others rights it could be used to hurt people and if someone wanted to bad enough policies and paper will not stop them just like tom suggests it could be used against the innocent. remember though there are good people in power there's also evil a majority of these people could get away with it .it's not just being paranoid now day's being paranoid could save a life. and know alot of people disagree with it because it's not morally right and disregards our privacy right's which in return could lead to communism so no it's not that all people have any thing to hide thats just an excuse to be possibly nosy or communist. like tom said just leave it out of people's homes. thank's.
Mon Apr 13 10:36:21 2009: Subject: TonyLawrence
You have no privacy when you are on a public street. People can already see you, can already track you if they want. A camera doesn't change that.
And again, my feeling is that if someone can see you, you should be able to see what they are seeing and see them also. That evens it all up.
Tue Apr 28 03:27:47 2009: Subject: ismail
'My life is a open book' , the remark of great leaders has now become an inescapable requirement of every one of us in present system of life. we are accountable to our ideas, desires,conducts and activities to every one around us all the time.
A welcome trend, google earth has made it possible.
Hats off to google, to present technological advance.
ismail
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Thu Apr 30 17:51:02 2009: Subject: TonyLawrence
Here in MA some people are getting upset because police have sometimes used GPS devices without a warrant. My feeling is that if the police can follow you without a warrant, all the GPS does is make it cheaper for the taxpayers.
The police note that they usually DO get a warrant because without that any evidence they gain isn't useful for court. However, in an emergency, knowing where someone has gone or is now can absolutely be useful.
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